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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
S.E suberbs, Vic
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: AE86 with S13 IRS
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Thu, 02 June 2005 07:08
 
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damn!
heres the critical point:
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Info on the swap, its not easy. I have about 80 to 100 hours into it and i still have a few more things to finish.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: AE86 with S13 IRS
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Thu, 02 June 2005 07:59
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Shit i have spent 4 hours and have the rear end in place , and have worked out how not to cut the car in the outer body joint . Removing the body joint and the seat belt mounting point  to bad if you wanted to keep the car a road usable . If going to all the trouble of adjustable arms why not just make it double wishbone like the jap kit , then all that body wouldn't have to be cut out like that . I love how some people go about so things the hard way , for a so called ae86 specialized Battle Version might have found that getting a rear cut of a ae86 , inverting it would have cut down the hours by half . That might be the difference between people from automotive manufacturing on a larger scale to building a few drift ae86's . Thankfully so poor customer wasn't paying for that 
TurboRA28 if you see me online i will send you a picture
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: AE86 with S13 IRS
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Fri, 03 June 2005 13:50
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hrrrm i head the word "cut" alot in his description of the work he had done dosent sound all that practicle
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Banned by his request
Location:
moved to tamworth
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: AE86 with S13 IRS
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Sat, 04 June 2005 02:02
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improvedae86 your 86 just for clubsprints and drift? as irs in the sprinter not legal in IP racing?wondering if there was a rule change i missed,or rule change i hope i missed.
mick
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: AE86 with S13 IRS
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Sat, 04 June 2005 02:12
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3t-ra40 i am highly interested in your conversion, tell me more, i am about to go the hilux rear end approach so this might proove to be a more efficient route.
was it incredibly hard??? i can weld (not proficiently yet but am getting there) and all of us can cut  so can say someone who likes to get dirty attempt something like this or is it out of my league and i should go back to the hilux approach.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: AE86 with S13 IRS
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Sat, 04 June 2005 03:47
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| kingmick wrote on Fri, 03 June 2005 22:02 |
improvedae86 your 86 just for clubsprints and drift? as irs in the sprinter not legal in IP racing?wondering if there was a rule change i missed,or rule change i hope i missed.
mick
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IP racing ? Also having a make of engine other than the car is as well If it was for drift i wouldn't be bothered with converting it to IRS {multilink} It really just the fact of winter , an adding boost starting a 2000rpm . The limitations of the live axle in evenly applying such torque loadings without cutting the the rear seat area out to add torque rods through the rear of the car to control this . You look bloody stupid with the ass end of the car coming out overtaking in top gear , also added that at 6am you couldn't be stuffed concentrating . The breakaway point is so much lower than your stock bmw's in such bad conditions that it limits the fun of driving the car , which is mostly want i want .
Really the stuffing around with modifying any kind of live axle into another car correctly so that handbrake works , suspension geometry is correct , gearing etc i am surprised that people which have had the same car through lots of different stages of modification and power have not started to convert to more modern designed rear ends alot earlier .
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
March 2005
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Re: AE86 with S13 IRS
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Sat, 04 June 2005 04:42
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that looks like a sweet set up. alot of work but somehting that will set it apart as its becoming increasingly more difficult to see and original idea in a sprinter these days
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Banned by his request
Location:
moved to tamworth
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: AE86 with S13 IRS
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Sat, 04 June 2005 09:43
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sorry mean improved production racing.
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: AE86 with S13 IRS
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Sun, 05 June 2005 11:45
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| 4agte wrote on Fri, 03 June 2005 23:50 |
hrrrm i head the word "cut" alot in his description of the work he had done dosent sound all that practicle
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Come on man I only mentioned it twice. F series IRS vs T series solid axle, what's not practical about that sort of upgrade? You can't expect to upgrade to IRS in a car that never came out with it without expecting to do some modifications. In terms of how hard to do, not really any harder than an engine conversion.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: AE86 with S13 IRS
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Wed, 08 June 2005 13:02
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ok 3t-ra40 this begs the next question.
now bear in mind i have not seen under any of these cars so it will sound like a newbie question but...
if you can get the irs rear end of an RT142 under the ra40, would it then be a relatively straight forward prospect to use say a XA70/XZ20 rear diff and axles and discs and brakes and bolt them to the RT142 independent rear end or is my complete lack of rear end knowledge now showing???
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Banned by his request
Location:
moved to tamworth
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: AE86 with S13 IRS
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Wed, 08 June 2005 13:19
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lol changing over any live to irs is never going to be straight forward swap for most people.its a matter of width,height and weight to strength needed in the setup you choose.if you dont have the adjustment to make up for mounting alignment,it wouldnt be fun either.
mick
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
April 2005
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Ademelaide, SA
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: AE86 with S13 IRS
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Thu, 09 June 2005 02:49
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Was it worth it? If you had to pay me to do it, no. Buy an s13. If you do it yourself, No. Go buy an s13. You want a high hp ae86, sell it and get a s13. After you have spent as much time building your car as i have, you will know why.
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who's the tard that said that?
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: AE86 with S13 IRS
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Thu, 09 June 2005 03:38
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Yeah i hate twots like that. If you dont want to get your hands dirty or improve your car, dont post on forums, dont own a car. blah blah.
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Location:
Ipswich
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: AE86 with S13 IRS
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Thu, 09 June 2005 05:40
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Was it worth it? If you had to pay me to do it, no. Buy an s13. If you do it yourself, No. Go buy an s13. You want a high hp ae86, sell it and get a s13. After you have spent as much time building your car as i have, you will know why.
who's the tard that said that?
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The guy that did the conversion.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Ademelaide, SA
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: AE86 with S13 IRS
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Thu, 09 June 2005 08:40
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as i said...what a tard.
i'm in agreeance with TurboRA28, and think that if you're gonna mod a car, be prepared to spend some time on it.
also, Adam's idea of flipping the ass-half of a car upside down to do such a conversion sounds like it would be SOO much easier.
reckon i might give it a go myself 
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: AE86 with S13 IRS
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Thu, 09 June 2005 10:29
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Yeah I think thats a good idea.. My mate has an old 75 lancer that he is converting to IRS and did just that. Went out to the wreckers with a hacksaw, axe, and spent half a day cutting the rear half off a lancer and brought it home, turned it upside down in his garage. Makes the conversion so much easier to work on.
I've got the rear 1/2 of a ra28 sitting behind a shed at a friends farm for that same purpose one day.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Ademelaide, SA
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: AE86 with S13 IRS
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Fri, 10 June 2005 08:35
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well..
i started cutting up an old wrecked 86 shell today 
fun times ahead
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
April 2005
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Re: AE86 with S13 IRS
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Fri, 10 June 2005 09:08
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| TurboRA28 wrote on Thu, 09 June 2005 13:38 |
Yeah i hate twots like that. If you dont want to get your hands dirty or improve your car, dont post on forums, dont own a car. blah blah.
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omg, I didn't mean modifying/improving your car is such a bad/stupid whatever. When I saw this post I was interested about how the guy did it then I had a good read about the orginal post in club4ag.com. Then I read a few sentences about what this guy think after finished this conversion, I agreed with it because IMO ae86 has its own characteristic as under power 4AGE, RWD, solid rear end and light weight and S13 is turbocharged 4 cyclinders rwd independent suspensions.. just that simple and no offence at all, it is a very good job also but only not my liking, I would love to see other ppl do these to their cars but I just wouldn't do it, either I dun have such a skill and also not my likeing.
no offence at all to anyone who like to modify their car to whatever they like but its just my own opinion as I owned a s13 b4 I liked the way it is being IRS and I owned a 86 now and like it being a solid rear end also.
omg, wat am I tring to explain... forget it ...
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Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: AE86 with S13 IRS
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Fri, 10 June 2005 09:38
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| 3t-RA40 wrote on Sun, 05 June 2005 21:45 |
| 4agte wrote on Fri, 03 June 2005 23:50 |
hrrrm i head the word "cut" alot in his description of the work he had done dosent sound all that practicle
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Come on man I only mentioned it twice. F series IRS vs T series solid axle, what's not practical about that sort of upgrade? You can't expect to upgrade to IRS in a car that never came out with it without expecting to do some modifications. In terms of how hard to do, not really any harder than an engine conversion.
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i was making a comment about the ae86 not your car
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: AE86 with S13 IRS
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Sat, 11 June 2005 13:26
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| 4agte wrote on Fri, 10 June 2005 19:38 |
| 3t-RA40 wrote on Sun, 05 June 2005 21:45 |
| 4agte wrote on Fri, 03 June 2005 23:50 |
hrrrm i head the word "cut" alot in his description of the work he had done dosent sound all that practicle
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Come on man I only mentioned it twice. F series IRS vs T series solid axle, what's not practical about that sort of upgrade? You can't expect to upgrade to IRS in a car that never came out with it without expecting to do some modifications. In terms of how hard to do, not really any harder than an engine conversion.
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i was making a comment about the ae86 not your car
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Sorry mate, just thinking it was all about me again .
I will do some photos soon and post them. If I don't get them done before the cruise to Terrigal than people will see it there. Planing to go to catch up with some of you.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: AE86 with S13 IRS
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Sat, 11 June 2005 14:16
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although take into account some of us aren't in terrigal but would still desperately like to see those pics 
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: AE86 with S13 IRS
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Thu, 23 June 2005 00:05
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http://page11.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/n195 93196
I had a link sent to me this morning containing another IRS converted ae86 This one cracked me up they located the subframe so far back to clear the body that the wheelbase is huge , as far as i can tell the rear of the guards would have been cut out to clear the wheels . Crazy all the other work on that car and they couldn't even modify the subframe to have the correct wheelbase and height for the driveshaft / tailshaft angle . Looking at the driveshaft angle when that car is raised i would say the driveshafts are on a upward direction when the car is at its normal height , thats why theres such silly camber . This also causes the wheels to be pushed down under torque loading , making traction lost due the non squatting of the rear the tyres become overloaded , plus there stupid camber That car would be almost undrivable . I cannot wait for more time to finish my IRS conversion  this one is the worst so far
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: AE86 with S13 IRS
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Thu, 23 June 2005 01:09
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My friends just started his 1975 LA Lancer IRS conversion (using a nissan 280z rear end as this was the closest in width we could find easily).
I've got some pics of some trial fitting i'll post up if people interested.
Also, didn't mean any offence about people not getting hands dirty modifying cars etc. I was just annoyed that someone who did the whole irs conversion and then turns around and tells everyone its too hard and go buy a s13. Very closed minded comment.
Cheers
Joel
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Registered:
October 2004
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Re: AE86 with S13 IRS
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Thu, 23 June 2005 11:28
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| improvedae86 wrote on Thu, 23 June 2005 10:05 |
http://page11.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/n195 93196
I had a link sent to me this morning containing another IRS converted ae86 This one cracked me up they located the subframe so far back to clear the body that the wheelbase is huge , as far as i can tell the rear of the guards would have been cut out to clear the wheels . Crazy all the other work on that car and they couldn't even modify the subframe to have the correct wheelbase and height for the driveshaft / tailshaft angle . Looking at the driveshaft angle when that car is raised i would say the driveshafts are on a upward direction when the car is at its normal height , thats why theres such silly camber . This also causes the wheels to be pushed down under torque loading , making traction lost due the non squatting of the rear the tyres become overloaded , plus there stupid camber That car would be almost undrivable . I cannot wait for more time to finish my IRS conversion this one is the worst so far
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Is it just me, or is that ae86 missing a radiator support?
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Location:
Barbados
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: AE86 with S13 IRS
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Thu, 23 June 2005 13:23
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| improvedae86 wrote on Thu, 23 June 2005 10:05 |
http://page11.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/n195 93196
I had a link sent to me this morning containing another IRS converted ae86 This one cracked me up they located the subframe so far back to clear the body that the wheelbase is huge , as far as i can tell the rear of the guards would have been cut out to clear the wheels . Crazy all the other work on that car and they couldn't even modify the subframe to have the correct wheelbase and height for the driveshaft / tailshaft angle . Looking at the driveshaft angle when that car is raised i would say the driveshafts are on a upward direction when the car is at its normal height , thats why theres such silly camber . This also causes the wheels to be pushed down under torque loading , making traction lost due the non squatting of the rear the tyres become overloaded , plus there stupid camber That car would be almost undrivable . I cannot wait for more time to finish my IRS conversion this one is the worst so far
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im really interested in seeing your conversion, do u have any pics of progress so far online? how soon do u expect to finish irs, im thinking about this but want to see more peoples solutions, sounds like u have planned it out good
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: AE86 with S13 IRS
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Thu, 23 June 2005 13:33
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| xolent wrote on Thu, 23 June 2005 20:58 |
Is it just me, or is that ae86 missing a radiator support?
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is it just me or is that car FUCKING HOT even tho it clearly has some dodgeyness about it...
and yes it appears to be missing a radiator support
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Registered:
October 2004
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Re: AE86 with S13 IRS
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Thu, 23 June 2005 14:05
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| MR 1JZ wrote on Thu, 23 June 2005 23:33 |
| xolent wrote on Thu, 23 June 2005 20:58 |
Is it just me, or is that ae86 missing a radiator support?
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is it just me or is that car FUCKING HOT even tho it clearly has some dodgeyness about it...
and yes it appears to be missing a radiator support
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HORRAAYYY FOR SMART ENGINEERING!
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Location:
Barbados
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: AE86 with S13 IRS
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Fri, 24 June 2005 12:39
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heh mna did u get my pm anbout this im very interested in seeing these setups as im trying to configure a way to do this conversion, so come one share the wealth
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: AE86 with S13 IRS
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Sat, 25 June 2005 01:24
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| Quote: |
Also Rallystanza and Henn have also seen this for there own eyes .
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Have seen it and it is going bloody great guns.
Good luck with it all Improved.
Bloody americans!
Regards,
Jezza
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: AE86 with S13 IRS
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Sat, 25 June 2005 11:13
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Here is a picture of mine after about 8-10ish hours of work .
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=6/17505243115.jpg&a mp;a mp;s=x2
Down points that other IRS { mutlilink } to Ae86 conversion that i have seem , apart from maybe the Hot Staff full custom subframe are :
1. The Chassis has been cut in lots of different areas , making it bloody weak even with a cage fitted .
2. The car would have been a shell to start with , and would have had to be inverted for brackets etc to be welded to the chassis . So its not a bolt in job .
3. The Subframe is solid mounted so the torque loading has not been distributed into the suspension so to apply even loading to the driving wheels . As well as adding road noise which the rear of the Ae86 isnt great for by modern standards .
4. All the suspension arms are always aftermarket adjustable units to correct the poor alignment from the bad positioning of the subframe . Also always rose jointed adding more road noise .
And making the price of the conversion much more .
5. The track issues , the need for flared guards are also caused be the incorrect angles of the suspension arms causing the movement arch at the ride height position equaling a full extended track . At this position tyres do not move inward on the upward travel passed the wheelarch .
6. The driveshaft are not running perfectly straight so to cause the least amount of driveshaft friction and making the shaft cv contact area at the strongest points . Also the input flange to gearbox tail shaft angles must be way out with the incorrectly positioned subframe and diff .
7. The use of long travel s13 coilovers , or no travel ae86 ones . With the multilink in position the wheel travel should be far greater that the live axle so whilst fully bottomed out the subframe lowest point should contact the ground before full wheel travel is achieved . This makes sure that with the correct spring rates the vehicle doesn't run out of wheel travel whilst full corner loading is applied to that wheel , a example of this is a every porsche from the 993 to the latest gt series .
8. The poorly positioned subframe again causes the suspension angles to produce a higher rollcenter that the standard s13 , as well as producing large amounts of toe in on the down travel , eg braking hard front dive . Sure this creates a stable rear whilst braking due to the added toe in , but distracts from the ability for the vehicle to be turned in under braking . Eg mazda last s8 rx7's had this removed due to the toe pulling the vehicle almost straight under heavy braking as commented by the press at the time .
9. The toe arm link positioning causing large toe and camber changes as well as the fact that it doesn't fit under the vehicle without the car being cut , or the subframe once again being in the incorrect position . I would rather not have such large changes in the geometry , this give different tyre slip angles causing a non predicable feel especially in the wet . Sure the live axle is great , but it is predicable , stock s13's in the wet are not .
10. All these other conversion might have missed the point of a Ae86 , its cheap and the rear conversion shouldn't cost shitloads , its only a old corolla at the end of the day
Maybe a under shot of the others would be great for a better understanding behind these conversions
[Updated on: Sat, 25 June 2005 11:13]
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: AE86 with S13 IRS
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Sat, 25 June 2005 23:25
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How things change
From: "robert woodard" <racecar1@charter.net> Add to Address Book
To: "john smith" <ae86sprinter2005@yahoo.com.au>
Subject: Re: IRS SET UP
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 10:35:27 -0700
ok.... ok.... i see it now but for some reason i didnt see it before seriously... i see what you mean by inverting the rear to make things easier and i aslo see your points about the other designs.. what i wanted to know is if you have any closer pics of it? and how did you figure out the right drivshaft pinion angle? and proper ride height and supension geomtry? with the new rear in place? ive been looking to do a conversion like this for a while just dont know how to go about it.. guys like you are helping a lot. one more question are you making yours double wishbone like you stated before? thanks for showing me you setup sorry for the put downs.. its just that i see so many shit talkers out there and not to many doers.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Ademelaide, SA
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: AE86 with S13 IRS
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Sun, 26 June 2005 04:06
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and how did you figure out the right drivshaft pinion angle?
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blind freddie can see the pinion angle gauge sitting on the subframe in that pic
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: AE86 with S13 IRS
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Sun, 26 June 2005 05:00
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looking very nice adam...
keep up the good work
do you think there could be a market to produce this on a larger scale?
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: AE86 with S13 IRS
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Sun, 26 June 2005 05:33
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| MR 1JZ wrote on Sun, 26 June 2005 15:00 |
do you think there could be a market to produce this on a larger scale?
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since most of the corolla owners are tight arses, the time and effort required to make it a product would probably not be worth the time needed to answer of of the stupid emails it would generate
looks fantastic tho.. feel like putting one into an earlier corolla?
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: AE86 with S13 IRS
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Sun, 26 June 2005 07:21
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Yeah thats for sure Oldcorollas , timewasters big time . Joel post some pictures of that early lancer that you are doing the irs on , i would think that might have a wheelbase closer to early corolla ? Thats looking shit hot as well
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Location:
New Zealand
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: AE86 with S13 IRS
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Sun, 26 June 2005 11:17
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| oldcorollas wrote on Sun, 26 June 2005 17:33 |
looks fantastic tho.. feel like putting one into an earlier corolla?
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Been done, MA61 type F code IRS narrowed to fit a yellow KE26 built through Boosted Performance in NZ.
http://www.boostedperformance.co.nz/
Callum
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: AE86 with S13 IRS
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Mon, 27 June 2005 23:45
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Lets get this back onto track.. talking about IRS conversions
Here are some pics for all to view of the 1975 LA Lancer IRS conversion my mate is currently working on. I hope to get my hands a bit dirty on this also and help him out along the way.
There is a link somewhere to all of them which cant find at the moment.. But will dig that up.. Here is just a few for now -
The main problem he is experiencing is limited travel, the wheel can droop heaps but can not move up as much as the arm hits the chassy rail.
Improvedae86, mate would like to discuss this with you a bit more when you have a min to get some ideas?
Cheers
Joel
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Location:
New Zealand
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: AE86 with S13 IRS
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Tue, 28 June 2005 00:30
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That was part of the reason I used the whole floorpan in my Starlet, no issues with clearance then. Obviously though mine was a lot less limited, no need to keep it looking at all factory since the wheel base is stretched and the track increase is huge to match the front.
Callum
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Ademelaide, SA
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: AE86 with S13 IRS
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Tue, 28 June 2005 01:00
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you converted a starlet to irs by changing the floorpan? i call first for pics!
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: AE86 with S13 IRS
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Tue, 28 June 2005 01:14
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purplebeasty whats in your KP61?
assuming thats what it is?
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Location:
New Zealand
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: AE86 with S13 IRS
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Tue, 28 June 2005 08:59
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Good thread Purple_Beasty , looks like it will look factory when finished . Also that Lancer is looking good Joel , any futher work on it since the pictures ? What the roll bar size ? that looks like it could be adapted to most irs rears easy . Hmm my posts have gone missing
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Location:
Canberra, ACT
Registered:
September 2002
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: AE86 with S13 IRS
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Tue, 28 June 2005 23:24
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Hey improvedae86, i'll try and catch up with my mate to see if he has done anymore work on the lancer irs. definately needs a coat of paint but doubt that'll happen until its all fitted in the actual car.
He is waiting on a new mig welder to arrive and i think that has been holding him up.
3t-ra40, thanks for that pic! i'm definately interested in seeing more as this may be the way to go for the ra28 .. anymore pics showing the mounting points?
CHeers
Joel
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: AE86 with S13 IRS
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Wed, 29 June 2005 00:44
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| TurboRA28 wrote on Wed, 29 June 2005 09:24 |
3t-ra40, thanks for that pic! i'm definately interested in seeing more as this may be the way to go for the ra28 .. anymore pics showing the mounting points?
CHeers
Joel
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Sorry it took so long to put a photo up. I've got more but only started uploading them last night, so more to come. I'll probably start a new thread as to not take over this one. I'll be pulling it back out this weekend to give it a good tidy up.
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Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
May 2002
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